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Author Topic: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150  (Read 401224 times)

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Offline Blown F-150

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1365 on: February 22, 2023, 10:35:08 AM »
Canít really test much, too cold.


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Offline Kitzy

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1366 on: February 22, 2023, 10:41:56 AM »
Canít really test much, too cold.


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Thatís disappointing.  Take it south.  Plenty of warm weather down here.  Close to 70 tomorrow which is just absurd.  What kind of temps should you have?  You need to get it to a climate controlled dyno. 


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Offline Blown F-150

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1367 on: February 22, 2023, 04:57:30 PM »
I called a couple of shops and they wonít run the dynos in the shops when itís this cold.

We are normally around -5 Celsius this time of year.


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Offline Kitzy

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1368 on: February 22, 2023, 05:08:59 PM »
I called a couple of shops and they wonít run the dynos in the shops when itís this cold.

We are normally around -5 Celsius this time of year.


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Better safe than sorry.  Is it a dyno issue or just afraid to put a tune in to it that wonít be ideal and possibly bad for the motor in warmer temps?  You think youíd be able to control temps indoors as long as you can properly vent the exhaust out.  Even if it means leaving the truck overnight in the garage to acclimate it to the temps and not risk opening the overhead doors.  I donít know, just thinking out loud.  Do you have a way to monitor everything to make sure youíre not in any danger zones or anything? 


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Offline Blown F-150

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1369 on: February 22, 2023, 10:34:59 PM »
They said they didnít want to run the Dyno in these cold temps (even though both are inside a shop) I wasnít going to push them on it, so whatever I guess.

There is some tuning we can easily do next week once it warms up a little bit. Itís very drivable as it is, just needs some tweaks so the turbos play nice before we turn them up.

I have a tuner in the truck with gauges so I can keep an eye on a few things.

This process takes time for sure and itís a crappy time of year to do it, but I couldnít wait until spring, lol.

The Explorer will get a nice upgrade next week, stand by!


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Offline Kitzy

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1370 on: February 25, 2023, 07:46:31 PM »
They said they didnít want to run the Dyno in these cold temps (even though both are inside a shop) I wasnít going to push them on it, so whatever I guess.

There is some tuning we can easily do next week once it warms up a little bit. Itís very drivable as it is, just needs some tweaks so the turbos play nice before we turn them up.

I have a tuner in the truck with gauges so I can keep an eye on a few things.

This process takes time for sure and itís a crappy time of year to do it, but I couldnít wait until spring, lol.

The Explorer will get a nice upgrade next week, stand by!


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Is it next week yet? 


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Offline Blown F-150

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1371 on: February 27, 2023, 09:41:24 AM »
Working on all the efficiency and speed tables for the turbos. Hopefully Iíll have something to test this afternoon.


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Offline Kitzy

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1372 on: March 01, 2023, 07:40:50 AM »
Working on all the efficiency and speed tables for the turbos. Hopefully Iíll have something to test this afternoon.


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I feel like weíve been let down


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Offline Blown F-150

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1373 on: March 01, 2023, 09:34:58 AM »
These turbos are the first, so canít really copy anyone elseís work. I offered to build the turbo tables in Excel while the tuner did some other work.

Itís a process for sure. Kinda cool as Iím getting to learn quite a bit.


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Offline Kitzy

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1374 on: March 01, 2023, 01:54:59 PM »
These turbos are the first, so canít really copy anyone elseís work. I offered to build the turbo tables in Excel while the tuner did some other work.

Itís a process for sure. Kinda cool as Iím getting to learn quite a bit.


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So how many of these turbos are out there right now?  What kind of research and development went in to them before you got a pair?  Where so they actually come from?  Like who makes them and are they off of another vehicle and made to work for yours? 


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Offline Blown F-150

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1375 on: March 01, 2023, 02:03:02 PM »
So these half of these turbos (Compressor side) have been out there for a couple of years from Garrett. They are meant to be bolt on re-placement for 2017+ 3.5 Ecoboosts. I would guess there are a few thousand sets out in the wild and tuned on the newer platform by many.

The other half is the turbine side. In order to get them to work for me, we had to get a set of Turbine housings custom machined. This allowed them to not only bolt to my manifolds, but also work with my old-style Vacuum controlled WasteGates (new ones are Electric solenoids). The Turbine side I have to use is smaller than the original, this means that the airflow and rate of spool is impacted.

The last piece of the puzzle is the wastegate management, mine being vacuum means the tuning is much different. This is the ONLY set like this today, nobody has these installed on a older model 3.5, so do to the differences, we have to make some assumptions and tuning changes to have a good starting point. This means changing some tables in the tune to something that nobody has done and working in excel to build out the tables and copy/pasting into the tuning program. It just makes is easier to adjust and make changes.

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Offline Kitzy

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1376 on: March 01, 2023, 06:01:55 PM »
So these half of these turbos (Compressor side) have been out there for a couple of years from Garrett. They are meant to be bolt on re-placement for 2017+ 3.5 Ecoboosts. I would guess there are a few thousand sets out in the wild and tuned on the newer platform by many.

The other half is the turbine side. In order to get them to work for me, we had to get a set of Turbine housings custom machined. This allowed them to not only bolt to my manifolds, but also work with my old-style Vacuum controlled WasteGates (new ones are Electric solenoids). The Turbine side I have to use is smaller than the original, this means that the airflow and rate of spool is impacted.

The last piece of the puzzle is the wastegate management, mine being vacuum means the tuning is much different. This is the ONLY set like this today, nobody has these installed on a older model 3.5, so do to the differences, we have to make some assumptions and tuning changes to have a good starting point. This means changing some tables in the tune to something that nobody has done and working in excel to build out the tables and copy/pasting into the tuning program. It just makes is easier to adjust and make changes.
So with the smaller turbine, you should spool faster and make power earlier, right?  Will you also be making more power at high RPMs?  Is there any fear that the turbine is too small? 

Weíre these bench tested or put on an engine dyno or anything or is it all hypothetical based on all the knowledge the builder already has and youíre the Guinea pig? 

I gotta say though itís pretty cool that you have the only set and youíre able to do this.  Any guarantees from the company making that youíre covered should something go horrible wrong?


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Offline Blown F-150

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1377 on: March 01, 2023, 08:47:52 PM »
Sorry, should have been clearer. The turbine wheel itself is the same, just the housing that is smaller. So it will spool quicker, but flow less on the top. Estimated that Iíll lose 30-40 crank HP peak vs the original Turbine housing these turbos come with.

There is really little risk of the actual HW failing, but he did provide me with warranty should something happen.


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Offline Blown F-150

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1378 on: March 01, 2023, 08:51:28 PM »
The guy Iím working with on the Turbos is the owner of Full Race. He is quite literally an expert on the subject and works with OEís like Garrett, Borg Warner, Ford, Toyota, Subaru, etc.

I do trust that he knows what he is doing and have known and chatted with him for the better part of a decade.


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Offline Kitzy

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Re: Slowly breaking everything - 2014 F-150
« Reply #1379 on: March 02, 2023, 09:10:19 AM »
Hopefully it didnít come across like I was doubting or suspicious of the company.  They were literally just curiosity questions on how it all works.  With all the money and time you have in to the truck, I would be paranoid something unproven would completely destroy my truck even if there was a 99% chance it should be successful on paper.  So I wasnít doubting the company in the least.  Just wondering if there are any provisions in the event something goes wrong. 

With every turbo vehicle I have ever driven, there has been a definitive rpm where boost has come in and you can feel the power.  Cassieís Subaru was by far the worst and it was the sole reason I hated driving it.  It had almost no power and then at a certain rpm it had ALL the power and it made it unrelaxing to drive.  And towing with diesels for the last 15 years or so on a daily basis, itís the same thing when hooked up.  Now my current truck with the 10 speed is way different.  Itís actually weird to drive because of it.  Thereís no surge through the gears at all.  Itís just always pulling.  It actually kind of takes the spirit out of driving but Iím getting off track here.  Did your truck have an RPM where you get that drastic increase in power and how does that RPM compare to the new setup if you even know yet.  Obviously itís not dialed in yet. 


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