collapse collapse

* Cafe Shout Box

Sorry, this shoutbox does not exist.

* Board Stats

  • stats Total Members: 339
  • stats Total Posts: 38026
  • stats Total Topics: 3280
  • stats Total Categories: 13
  • stats Total Boards: 33
  • stats Most Online: 829

* Calendar

September 2020
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 [19]
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30

No calendar events were found.

The Cafe is OPEN
Detailing today? Check the Weather  http://www.weather.com/

Author Topic: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...  (Read 716 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kitzy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • OCDer formerly known as ESF
5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« on: August 06, 2020, 07:52:50 AM »
Researching and planning ahead.  Will probably get a toy hauler.  First major question, what would be the upper limit on size when pulling with an 18 F250 6.7 diesel.  Jason, I thought I remember you saying you wish you would have went with an F350. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

If you always do what you\'ve always done, you\'ll always get what you\'ve always got.

Offline gesfour

  • Café Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2020, 09:42:27 AM »
I don't have a 5th wheel but I do have a 30 foot camper and I also tow a boat from time to time.  I know that you tow frequently so, for what it's worth, when I was shopping, I discovered several things:

1.  RV dealers will sell you anything regardless of your tow vehicle.

2.  Pay attention to your truck's GCVWR, which is the total weight of everything, including truck, camper, passengers and stuff.

3.  Dry weight of my camper is usually about 1000 pounds shy of what I'm actually pulling.  Water (at 8 lbs. a gallon), propane and everything else you take with you add up quickly.  Note, I don't travel with water.  Adding the *toys* in a toy hauler takes it up even more.

4.  Everyone has their own opinions about what you should and shouldn't do.  Take advice (including mine  :redneck:) with a grain of salt.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 09:51:16 AM by gesfour »

Offline Kitzy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • OCDer formerly known as ESF
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2020, 10:22:27 AM »
I don't have a 5th wheel but I do have a 30 foot camper and I also tow a boat from time to time.  I know that you tow frequently so, for what it's worth, when I was shopping, I discovered several things:

1.  RV dealers will sell you anything regardless of your tow vehicle.

2.  Pay attention to your truck's GCVWR, which is the total weight of everything, including truck, camper, passengers and stuff.

3.  Dry weight of my camper is usually about 1000 pounds shy of what I'm actually pulling.  Water (at 8 lbs. a gallon), propane and everything else you take with you add up quickly.  Note, I don't travel with water.  Adding the *toys* in a toy hauler takes it up even more.

4.  Everyone has their own opinions about what you should and shouldn't do.  Take advice (including mine  :redneck:) with a grain of salt.
Thanks.  By the way, in a world for of instant notifications, I caught the pre-edit.  Thought, man, that wasn't helpful at all.  Haha.

Another question is, when is a standard drivers license not enough anymore.  I dont see it being an issue but I like to know things.  Haha. I was reading a 5th wheel can be up to 15k.  Then there's gcvwr which is 26k and if that's the case can the camper be the difference of your trucks gvwr and the 26k? 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

If you always do what you\'ve always done, you\'ll always get what you\'ve always got.

Offline gesfour

  • Café Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2020, 10:32:25 AM »
Haha!  Yep.  I accidentally hit send.   

Offline Rollingrock

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7325
  • Milk was a bad idea.
    • The Detailer's Café
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2020, 09:34:11 AM »
Researching and planning ahead.  Will probably get a toy hauler.  First major question, what would be the upper limit on size when pulling with an 18 F250 6.7 diesel.  Jason, I thought I remember you saying you wish you would have went with an F350. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Mike, with most toy haulers are you going to be over cargo weight on the pin.   Check that sticker in your door...that is your cargo weight...including you, passengers, fuel, coolers and the pin weight of the trailer. 

Toy haulers are more like 25% of the Gross weight of the trailer.   Normal 5th wheels 20%.  Even if you have toys in the garage that won't take away much pin weight at all...like maybe 100lbs.   I see F250's all day long pulling toy haulers but they are all overweight in an F250....the 350 just gives you the larger axel and 1 extra spring in the pack, that is the only difference.   

That said, you could get air bags, sumno springs etc....but net is, you will still be overweight.   Hell, I am having hard time finding a 5th wheel within speck of my truck...my cargo is only 2174 lbs.   Most 5th wheels these days are a tad pin heavy...

we have had 2 5ers.  first one would be equal to the Jayco HT line. (Half ton towable-----laughable) they are super light, and won't know its there on a 250....if you go to JayCo Eagle....now you are in real weight and those rigs don't have a dropped frame either.   Toy Haulers, are heavy.   and the living space unless you get a 3axle version is tiny.   
Thanks for visiting the Cafe, come back often.  There's always something new!

Offline Kitzy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • OCDer formerly known as ESF
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2020, 10:17:13 AM »
A 3 axle is only out of the question because they're too heavy for the F250.  I would love a Seismic.  I have a family member in Tennessee who has a 2015 Forest River XLR Thunderbolt that he pulls with his 2011 F250.  He said it's 37', 11,500 lbs.  He said with the SxS and luggage he's probably over.  That said, he's in Tennessee where rules don't matter. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

If you always do what you\'ve always done, you\'ll always get what you\'ve always got.

Offline Blown F-150

  • Café Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2476
  • Don't ask me if I read the instructions
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2020, 09:06:42 PM »
Check you local laws, we can’t pull a trailer that is 10k lbs or more without a higher class drivers license.

What is your payload on your truck? Like Jason said, pin weight is usually pretty crazy on the 5th wheels, but they will pull Better than a bumper pull IMO. Also, 1200lbs hanging off your back hitch has more leverage than 1500lbs on a pin in the box.

I was surprised that most F250’s have a lower payload than a F150 with HDPP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2011 Ford Edge Limited White Pearl

2014 F-150 FX4 Blue Flame

If only there were 3-day weekends.

Offline Kitzy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • OCDer formerly known as ESF
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2020, 07:04:06 AM »
Check you local laws, we can’t pull a trailer that is 10k lbs or more without a higher class drivers license.

What is your payload on your truck? Like Jason said, pin weight is usually pretty crazy on the 5th wheels, but they will pull Better than a bumper pull IMO. Also, 1200lbs hanging off your back hitch has more leverage than 1500lbs on a pin in the box.

I was surprised that most F250’s have a lower payload than a F150 with HDPP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think 10k is the pull behind and 15k is 5th wheel.  Combined weight is 26000 or less before needing a special license.  So if I'm understanding this correctly, my truck being 10k gvwr gives me enough room to tow 16k before hitting 26k but realistically only 15k because that seems to be the 5th wheel limit.  But then I cant go over the cargo weight with the pin weight which is pretty low at 2364lbs.  Figuring 400 lbs (I need to work on that, haha) with just me an Cassie and an additional 200 lbs worth of dogs if we take them, that doesn't leave much.  Am I looking at this right?

Been looking at duallys and it seems all of the duallys are lariats which are out of my price range, especially if I'm adding a camper payment.  Are there no XLT Duallys?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

If you always do what you\'ve always done, you\'ll always get what you\'ve always got.

Offline Blown F-150

  • Café Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2476
  • Don't ask me if I read the instructions
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2020, 05:01:44 PM »
Yup, you pretty much got it. That why usually payload is the limiting factor. It doesn’t take much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2011 Ford Edge Limited White Pearl

2014 F-150 FX4 Blue Flame

If only there were 3-day weekends.

Offline Kitzy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • OCDer formerly known as ESF
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2020, 06:40:58 PM »
Yup, you pretty much got it. That why usually payload is the limiting factor. It doesn’t take much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So with just me and Cassie, I'm left with about 1900 lbs to spare, roughly.  Given Jason's estimate of 20% pin weight (25% for toy hauler), that leaves me with a max camper weight of 9500lbs (7600lbs if a toy hauler) to stay legal.  Man that seems low. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

If you always do what you\'ve always done, you\'ll always get what you\'ve always got.

Offline Kitzy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • OCDer formerly known as ESF
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2020, 07:47:07 AM »
I'm having difficulty finding information on trucks and payload and payload vs cargo weight.  Payload numbers seem to vary a good bit from what I see online compared to the cargo weight on my trucks door sticker.  Is there a difference?  Also, I can't find a good source for finding the different numbers between the f250, f350 are and the f350 dually.  And then do I believe the payload numbers on any of the trucks if none of them match my current set up? 

It's hard to find a sweet spot for what I need.  It seems an f250 can't legally haul what I need.  And I dually has a gvwr so high that it doesn't leave enough room for a trailer in the weight class that I want.  Even though legally the truck could pull it, my license wouldn't allow it. 



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

If you always do what you\'ve always done, you\'ll always get what you\'ve always got.

Offline Blown F-150

  • Café Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2476
  • Don't ask me if I read the instructions
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2020, 09:48:45 PM »
It’s a actually kinda crazy how much payload can vary. The F150 can literally go from a payload of under a thousand pounds to almost three thousand pounds.

Sounds to me like you need to target a nicely loaded XLT F350 (or other brand one-ton tomorrow).

If you are not worried about DOT, you can easily tow what a one-ton tows, but should update you springs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2011 Ford Edge Limited White Pearl

2014 F-150 FX4 Blue Flame

If only there were 3-day weekends.

Offline Kitzy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • OCDer formerly known as ESF
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2020, 03:44:22 AM »
It’s a actually kinda crazy how much payload can vary. The F150 can literally go from a payload of under a thousand pounds to almost three thousand pounds.

Sounds to me like you need to target a nicely loaded XLT F350 (or other brand one-ton tomorrow).

If you are not worried about DOT, you can easily tow what a one-ton tows, but should update you springs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't know where my travels are going to take me once we get our set up.  Most of my driving for work is in Pennsylvania and NJ and both states are a pain in the ass for DOT stopping and going over your rig.  Staying legal is important.  Down in Tennessee the cops will just wave as you pass by with the sketchiest of setups. 

I am entertaining both f350 Duallys and SRW.  I just need to find out roughly what the SRW offers as far as payload but I don't feel like I can trust online numbers. 

Also, the license thing may just be a small hiccup.  I can also upgrade my license to a non commercial class A which would allow me to tow over 26000 lbs as long as it's not commercial.  Cassie actually has her CDL Class A do she can always pull it and I can just get deathly sick as I always do when I'm a passenger.  Haha

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 04:41:07 AM by Kitzy »
If you always do what you\'ve always done, you\'ll always get what you\'ve always got.

Offline Rollingrock

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7325
  • Milk was a bad idea.
    • The Detailer's Café
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2020, 11:24:40 PM »
Yup, you pretty much got it. That why usually payload is the limiting factor. It doesn’t take much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So with just me and Cassie, I'm left with about 1900 lbs to spare, roughly.  Given Jason's estimate of 20% pin weight (25% for toy hauler), that leaves me with a max camper weight of 9500lbs (7600lbs if a toy hauler) to stay legal.  Man that seems low. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

**Long Post Warning**

Mike this is the Bible for Ford Towing.   

This is what I live and go by, plus my specific truck specs that are in the door.   Now Granted people say you can add air bags and yes I have done that in the the past (Sumo springs now) but the difference in 350 and 250 is more than just a leaf spring and overloads...its the rear axle diameter too.  350's have larger rear axles.   thus the payload increase.

Live here first:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/towing-guides/2019_Ford_RVandTrailerTowingGuide.pdf

Now if you really want to know how it works, read this taken from the Jayco Owners site, there are some really smart people over there when it comes to towing.   

"North American and Foreign Automobile manufacturer's publish Tow Ratings (or tow limits) for most of the vehicles they manufacture, but what most of us don't know is that a published Tow Rating can be a little mis-leading.

Automotive engineers calculate a Tow Rating based on five major components of the given model vehicle in question, that being; the Engine, Transmission, Axles, Brakes, and Frame. Now, where does the weight of the vehicle come into play? Well, this is the part of a Tow Rating that is frequently overlooked by consumers......

Since any given model vehicle can be configured differently with options (ie; 4WD, sun roof, trim packages, etc.), and used differently by the consumer, the engineers had to come up with a means of associating a specific vehicle weight to a publicized Tow Rating. This is where a vehicle's "Curb Weight" comes in the picture. Every vehicle is assigned a "Curb Weight" which represents the base model vehicle including a 150lb driver and a full tank of fuel (includes all fluids required to make the vehicle operational).

Bottom line: Manufacture Tow Ratings are based on the specified Curb Weight of the base model vehicle in question. If you look at the fine print under most publicized Tow Ratings you will find that the Tow Rating doesn't include the combined weights of the vehicle's OP&C (options, passengers, and cargo). To determine the ACTUAL Tow Rating one must subtract the combined weights of OP&C from the publicized Tow Rating.

When shopping for a new TV, know that you will have to subtract OP&C weight from the publicized Tow Rating. If you have an existing TV, take it to a CAT scale and weigh it under loaded conditions..., then:

(Weight of OP&C) = (CAT Scale Weight) - (TV Curb Weight)

(ACTUAL Tow Rating) = (Published Tow Rating) - (Weight of OP&C)

Working within the weight limits of any given TV, TT, HTT, PUP, etc., will make for a safe and enjoyable towing experience."

*************************************************



Thanks for visiting the Cafe, come back often.  There's always something new!

Offline Rollingrock

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7325
  • Milk was a bad idea.
    • The Detailer's Café
Re: 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2020, 11:31:02 PM »
I just want to add

If you and I both keep our current TV's....no matter what 5er you put back there we are going to be border line or over.

Is it the end of the world no.  I looked at the specs of my past 2 5ers and only one of them was in spec for the 06 KR I had...i did have air bags with compressor and I could air up as needed....our last 5er was 9400 lbs dry....by math the pin weight should of been around 1400 lbs but it wasn't, it was closer to 2200 lbs when loaded.   I ran 45-55 lbs of air in the bags to bring the set up to level.   Was I over pin weight, you betcha....was i over gross...no but borderline.  Did I tow it with ease, you betcha....if I ever got in an accident and they checked the door or specs of the truck....welp I would probably be liable for being over weight. 

Is our motor strong enough to pull anything....yes it is.  Do people do it?  ALL DAY LONG.  I have seen more overloaded F250s since i started loooking.  I have seen 3X Toy Haulers getting pulled daily with 250s....they are way over weight.   

Comes down to, are you good with that?   Rolling down the highway at 70 mph with that much in your back pack is something to think about.   
Thanks for visiting the Cafe, come back often.  There's always something new!

 


* Recent Photos

t

Views: 2
By: Rollingrock

* Recent Topics

topic Slowly making progress - 2014 F-150
[General Discussion]
Kitzy
September 17, 2020, 12:48:47 PM
topic 2014 Toyota Tacoma
[Café Detailing Gallery]
Too Stroked
September 16, 2020, 04:10:59 PM
topic 3D One
[Detailing Help]
Kitzy
September 15, 2020, 06:47:44 PM
topic 5th Wheeler Camper guys...
[General Discussion]
Kitzy
September 07, 2020, 06:10:07 AM
topic Removing Baked on Bug Guts
[Detailing Help]
Too Stroked
September 02, 2020, 05:28:28 AM
topic Where is rollingrock
[General Discussion]
sscully
August 19, 2020, 01:49:57 PM
topic Detailing Causes a Color Change?
[Detailing Help]
Too Stroked
August 17, 2020, 04:53:49 PM
topic Cheap, Shameless Reflecto Shots
[Café Detailing Gallery]
Kitzy
August 06, 2020, 06:28:21 AM
topic Sorry gents.....been busy
[General Discussion]
sscully
July 06, 2020, 11:33:35 PM

* Recent Posts

No posts were found.

* Top Boards


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal