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Author Topic: LED Work light or Halogen  (Read 2136 times)

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Offline Rollingrock

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LED Work light or Halogen
« on: November 28, 2017, 01:22:11 AM »
So the reason I posted this obscure post over at F150 was to see who was really paying attention but it is a serious topic for those of us with the affliction.

I have told people who bring me cars/trucks, you can live and die by the light, work yourself into a total panic or over the top OCD person by using lights to correct.   

As we all know, those that remain here, tried and true is a basic rule and while I love LED lighting, I just did a weekend of prep, and ready under LED's and found them nice for lighting but not for detail work.    So while it sucks to have hot ass Halogen's they just produce in my opinion a better working color temp.  It's better on the eyes too. 

For basic correction, I found myself using my sungun on my paint...spot checking my work.  The LED's became just a source of light, just like my overheads but not a tool I could use for checking progress on troubled areas etc. 

The perfect example I could give, when using the Optimum Gloss Coat (the working mans version of Opti-Coat) I found the LED's not able to allow me to see the product going on and flashing.  I had to turn the light off and use my sun gun.   It was very frustrating and nerve racking as I couldn't see the high spots.   

So again, while I love LED for its many uses and applications, until they come out with a powerful version 2500-2700K temp replacement (at 800+ R Lumens), I am going to stick to getting a tan under my halogens. 

Discuss.....




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Offline sscully

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 05:59:04 PM »
I converted my twin tube 8' 3500K FL tubes to dual twin 4' LEDs, but I still use the halogens mounted on the garage track to do serious detail work.
I can notice door dings much easier with the LED conversion kits I got and I can do minor polish and LSP applications but going beyond 80% corrected I use halogen heads.

Here is a picture of the light head mounted to a swivel plate I made in the top of the picture.


I think part of your problem is the fixture you selected. 
Color spectrum @ 5000K is too high in the spectrum for detail work and the beam pattern on them is not the best and it is pushing too much lumen output for that low of a ceiling at 17,300 lm  output.

It is a light flame thrower on the floor


If you look at the little lighting data they provide, those are on a 16' high ceiling, so it appears you are not getting the full spread and creating a hot spot.


If your camera on auto was shutting down, you had too much lumen which means on the top or side of a vehicle you were making yourself snow blind; that is why you are having problems with your eyes.

You might want to start over with the garage lights and have a lighting layout done to get the correct lumen output and pattern for the ceiling height you have.
- I know you don't want to hear this a 2nd time.... :dunno:

You can use a extension ring on the center stumble light location to convert to surface mounted pipe to put the lights where they need to be.
- double check your electrical code, it is legit up here with the N.E.C version they use.

If you are staying at this house, take the pain now and cut the drywall to pipe behind it. 
Also add in some outlets in the ceiling to aid in extension cord management for detailing.
- Place them by the angle iron for the overhead door so you can velcro strap them to it so you don't pull the cord out of the outlet.

Sorry I still have the same opinion from last year....
Steve

Offline Rollingrock

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 12:11:36 AM »
Man, that was a lot to digest Steve  :uugly:

Ok, let me be a little more clear.

I am talking about these kinds of lights

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200679035_200679035
vs Halogen

I love you found that old picture from that shot...I have moved that light to a different location and replaced both the left and right bay with proper overhead lighting.   

Sorry if my post was confusing and I used the wrong terms for lights.   

And yes, I do have a 350+ LED light from SuperBrightLED  that I am not getting the full use out of it.   That mistake is all on me.   I am considering bucking up and replacing my lights to the BigAss Lights. 
https://www.haikuhome.com/learn-more-about-garage-light

I do like that Ceiling mount you made with your Halogens.   I could easily convert my ceiling mounts to plugs.   Have since added Superbright 4ft LED's in each bay and moved the dumb light to the 3rd bay.

Bought 2 of these:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-t8-tubes-replacement-bulbs/t8-led-vapor-proof-light-fixture-with-4-t8-tubes-industrial-led-light-4-long/3729/#/attributes/11586


« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 12:20:11 AM by Rollingrock »
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Offline sscully

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 12:41:11 AM »
Sorry I went back to the LEd lighting you had last year; my mistake.

That Northern Tool LED work light @ 8000 lumen is a bit bright for getting up close to the paint.
That would the equivalent of the same twin head design, each with a 500W bulb installed going lumen for lumen.

If you are good with using a 1000 W dual head, next is the color temp.  The NT one is 4000 K where the halogen is going to be 2900 to 3000 K color temp.  That is going to wear on your eyes up close.
- I use one on each side of the vehicle when detailing and a smaller one at the front and rear when doing the hood.

Those LED work lights are good for lighting up a job site and not much else in my book.
- Too much lumen at a higher CCT value.

I'd pass on trying to use that NT one for doing 90% + defect removal and for sure when applying a coating and trying to see if it flashed level or not.
Steve

Offline sscully

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 11:30:57 PM »
...<snip>...I am considering bucking up and replacing my lights to the BigAss Lights. 
https://www.haikuhome.com/learn-more-about-garage-light
...<snip>...

I finally got a chance to dig into these garage lights and to sum it up : Don't.

Those are 13,000 lumen @ 4,000 K ( or 5,000 K depending on which one you order ) so they are going to be about as useful as the NT work light stand when it comes to detailing.

They do not show any data on the light output ( at least SuperBrightLED gave you that ) so I cannot tell how bad it would be at the hood level, but I would guess the same as the NT work lights.

Go find some 4' or 8' LED FL replacement fixtures ( the big mfgrs all have them now ready to go with no power supplies ) to install that are in the 3000 K color temp range. 

You need to watch your lumen output with that low of a ceiling.
- Those 10,000 lumen and above fixtures you keep looking at, you are going to walk outside in JUN at high noon and wonder why it is so dark outside...
Steve

Offline Kitzy

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 06:15:36 PM »


...<snip>...I am considering bucking up and replacing my lights to the BigAss Lights. 
https://www.haikuhome.com/learn-more-about-garage-light
...<snip>...

 
- Those 10,000 lumen and above fixtures you keep looking at, you are going to walk outside in JUN at high noon and wonder why it is so dark outside...

This is Jason you're talking to.  Making the mid day sun look dim isn't even good enough. 


This thread is killing me because my garage lights are complete trash.  I want to bring in an electrician friend and have all new lights put in but I don't know what I want to go with.  I have those conversion tubes in the kitchen with the ballasts bypassed.  I sometimes don't even like turning the kitchen lights on.  Instant day time. 

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If you always do what you\'ve always done, you\'ll always get what you\'ve always got.

Offline sscully

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 09:11:32 PM »
This is Jason you're talking to.  Making the mid day sun look dim isn't even good enough. 

This thread is killing me because my garage lights are complete trash.  I want to bring in an electrician friend and have all new lights put in but I don't know what I want to go with.  I have those conversion tubes in the kitchen with the ballasts bypassed.  I sometimes don't even like turning the kitchen lights on.  Instant day time. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I don't know which ones you used ( if it was not the PO that did it ) in the kitchen, but the fixtures that are LED replacements from Kichler, Rab, Metalux or Cooper are not high lumen brutal fixtures. These are built as LED fixtures.
Some of the retro fit kits are 4000 K and above high lumen blinders because they think people ( *cough JP cough * ) want this.

The 4' Sylvania T8 retro fit kits I did in the laundry room ( 2 bulb fixture ) are about the same as SP35 color corrected bulbs when new.  SP35 are 3500 K ( depending on the age ). 
These are the 1st series ~ 7 years ago and I think the kits I got were 3850 K with similar wattage output, so it had a bit more pop to it off the white walls and white tile floor.

If I am recalling the garage correctly ( this is where the tractor is at ) you don't have the white ceiling and walls to reflect off of and that looked to be a 10' ceiling height instead of the house, so they might not be that bad as general lighting.
- Non painted walls and the bare concrete floor makes a big difference in light not reflecting.

Ask your friend to do a lighting layout, you might be shocked what you put in there just to have general work lighting.  He can drop a lumen meter on a milk crate on the floor and tell you what you are getting now ( expect single digits ) and be able to suggest a layout and fixture count and type. 
The supply house might be running package deals ( depending on who they carry ) for a package deal but you will need t buy everything in a single order and take delivery by the end of that mfgrs fiscal quarter.
Steve

Offline Rollingrock

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 09:26:58 PM »
This is what it looks like now.    The single bay is that SuperBright High Bay light and it does work better here with light spillage and reflecting off walls etc. 



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« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 09:29:46 PM by Rollingrock »
Thanks for visiting the Cafe, come back often.  There's always something new!

Offline Rollingrock

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 09:32:29 PM »
This is Jason you're talking to.  Making the mid day sun look dim isn't even good enough. 

This thread is killing me because my garage lights are complete trash.  I want to bring in an electrician friend and have all new lights put in but I don't know what I want to go with.  I have those conversion tubes in the kitchen with the ballasts bypassed.  I sometimes don't even like turning the kitchen lights on.  Instant day time. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I don't know which ones you used ( if it was not the PO that did it ) in the kitchen, but the fixtures that are LED replacements from Kichler, Rab, Metalux or Cooper are not high lumen brutal fixtures. These are built as LED fixtures.
Some of the retro fit kits are 4000 K and above high lumen blinders because they think people ( *cough JP cough * ) want this.



Hang on there a second Steve....I still have some tubes to convert in my house and I will be using appropriate lighting.  I will get a shot of what I need to convert. 

:)
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Offline Rollingrock

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 09:37:41 PM »
These are next

I have to direct wire these I am sure.     Just hadn't the time to get to it and I want to change the color temp to 2700-3500. 

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Offline sscully

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2017, 11:56:54 PM »
Are those T8 tubes up there ?
- The kitchen shot almost looks like a puck type light with the hot spot on the ceiling. 

BTW : Those lights might be 3500 K, they actually appear higher towards 4000 K. 
The ones under the cabinet might be 2850 K.

You might be shocked that it is a switched outlet up there, that is how I did the undercabinet lighting inn my kitchen with the Juno mini track.
- it was uppers and lowers until I put in 42" uppers on an 8' ceiling which means I lost the uppers.

If it is a switched outlet you can look at these.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003G9408K?tag=viglink126877-20

The Patio picture on Amazon is my patio with the white version, they are very bright output.


They also have a warm white version at 3100 K if you want more yellow than white.

If you want to stick with the white, there are dimmers ( ASIN : B003L4KKF2 ) for them that will tone down how bright they are.

The other option is to do something like the Juno mini track ( trac 12 )  up there and you can install the number of lights to adjust the brightness.
I still have the wedge base bulbs in mine


If I did not have the investment already I would look at the LED light heads instead of the wedge base bulbs that I have piles of after removing the top row in the kitchen and changing the under cabinet lighting in the Mrs' office. 
I could double my office and the kitchen and still have some spares left over.

The LED come in a series of color temp and wattage ranges form 0.6 W 3000 K to 1.6 W 4000 K.


You can even get mini flood lights if you want to put up accent lighting on something from that same track.


Next are you changing those recess cans to LED ?
When I redid the kitchen I added 4 recess cans in there and started with the Cree LR6 in each one.  I went 3500 K in those on a 4 position dimmer.  The LR6 can be dimmed to 5%

Speaking of Cree, they have the Surface Wrap 4' replacement fixtures, those are a good option for the garage in 3000 K, 3500 K or 4000 K also can be dimmed to 5%.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:59:17 PM by sscully »
Steve

Offline Rollingrock

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2017, 12:17:15 AM »
Are those T8 tubes up there ?
- The kitchen shot almost looks like a puck type light with the hot spot on the ceiling. 

BTW : Those lights might be 3500 K, they actually appear higher towards 4000 K. 
The ones under the cabinet might be 2850 K.

You might be shocked that it is a switched outlet up there, that is how I did the undercabinet lighting inn my kitchen with the Juno mini track.
- it was uppers and lowers until I put in 42" uppers on an 8' ceiling which means I lost the uppers.

If it is a switched outlet you can look at these.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003G9408K?tag=viglink126877-20

The Patio picture on Amazon is my patio with the white version, they are very bright output.


They also have a warm white version at 3100 K if you want more yellow than white.

If you want to stick with the white, there are dimmers ( ASIN : B003L4KKF2 ) for them that will tone down how bright they are.

The other option is to do something like the Juno mini track ( trac 12 )  up there and you can install the number of lights to adjust the brightness.
I still have the wedge base bulbs in mine


If I did not have the investment already I would look at the LED light heads instead of the wedge base bulbs that I have piles of after removing the top row in the kitchen and changing the under cabinet lighting in the Mrs' office. 
I could double my office and the kitchen and still have some spares left over.

The LED come in a series of color temp and wattage ranges form 0.6 W 3000 K to 1.6 W 4000 K.


You can even get mini flood lights if you want to put up accent lighting on something from that same track.


Next are you changing those recess cans to LED ?
When I redid the kitchen I added 4 recess cans in there and started with the Cree LR6 in each one.  I went 3500 K in those on a 4 position dimmer.  The LR6 can be dimmed to 5%

Speaking of Cree, they have the Surface Wrap 4' replacement fixtures, those are a good option for the garage in 3000 K, 3500 K or 4000 K also can be dimmed to 5%.


All of my lights in this house has been converted to LED, all cans/pars etc...the ONLY lights that haven't been converted are the over cabinet fluorescent lights.  The under cab puck's are all converted.  Those tube lights are the only thing left to convert.   All my architectural lighting is also converted.  Front is 120v and rear is 12v.   I don't know what a T8 tube is but I suspect I have them.  I know it is a combo of 4ft and 2 fit fixtures over the cabinets.   

Steve, those rock lights on your patio look awesome.  Is that a rope light?   
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 12:24:18 AM by Rollingrock »
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Offline sscully

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2017, 09:26:12 AM »
...<snip>.. I don't know what a T8 tube is but I suspect I have them.  I know it is a combo of 4ft and 2 fit fixtures over the cabinets.   ...<snip>...

T8 is a fluorescent tube.


If it a single tube fixture it still might be a cord on the fixture or wired with greenfield flex to a box or the flex goes into the wall directly from the fixture.
If it hardwired to a surface box or the flex is direct to the fixture, change it over to an outlet so you can change it at will in the future.

Easy enough to flip the switch off, take apart the fixture and reuse the fitting from the fixture to a 1900 style surface box with a garvin cover for the outlet

Greenfield flex


Fitting to a box or direct to the fixture


1900 box


garvin cover ( common name or a brand that used to make them ).


If you are going to have someone do this, the names I use are from the electrical trade up here and somewhat dated; so don't be shocked if you ask an electrician ( that is not 5 + decades old ) and he has no clue what you are talking about.   Show him the pictures... :redneck:

If you want to do a WebEx with video I can step you through this, it is not as bad as it seems.
It is not like you are as bad with electrical as Brad is.
Brad still has the #4 & #5 all time threads by reply count in the electrical subforum over at F150OL behind intermittent odometer display sticky, door ajar sticky and radio stays on threads.

...<snip>...Steve, those rock lights on your patio look awesome.  Is that a rope light?


That lighting it a LED on foil in a plastic channel that is siliconed to the brick.


I got 6 years out of it up here before I LEDs started to go out.  I replaced it earlier this year and added some to the tip behind the wall.  I also added a LED spot to the left side wall as there is on the right ( part can be seen by the tea cup flower pot on the right side ).
It is marked for cutting to length so you can make them shorter if you want to.

The t12 Trac from Juno is another option, that is a small plastic track that uses 12 AWG wire as the power rails ( regular trac uses a flat wire rail on each side ). 
It is easy to pull back the wire cut the plastic  trac to length and screw terminal the adapters and trim the wire to length.


There are adapters to change to lamp cord ( NOT speaker wire ) so you can make turns and bends with the track.
- I'll get a picture of the kitchen to give you an idea of what it looks like in a bit.
Steve

Offline Kitzy

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 08:34:25 PM »
Pictures definitely help me understand some of your posts.  Haha.  You're one technical fella. 

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Offline Rollingrock

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Re: LED Work light or Halogen
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 09:29:49 PM »
Pictures definitely help me understand some of your posts.  Haha.  You're one technical fella. 

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