Hard work paying off!

[sscully]

I took the info you posted in the URL above, and did progressives on the flat around the world.

WOW !!!
- that is a mother having never worked the chest that way.

I am going to do the seated versions on the next shoulder day, and see how those go.

Only 3 work out days in on your 5x5 progressive, and those hit hard ( more so that GVT or HST ).

Thanks for the suggestion, seems to do as much damage as the HST and no where near the sets as HST or GVT

[Kitzy]

Glad you liked it and it seemed for work for you. 

I didn't try the flat bench version of Around The Worlds.  I did the seated version and I gotta tell ya... it killed me.  I started off with 45# dumbbells but couldn't keep my form strict enough.  I dropped down to 35s and did a few sets.  What I didn't realize until the next morning was how the super slow negative I was doing trying to control the motion was absolutely destroying my lats.  That was wednesday and they still havent recovered 100%.  I will be doing them again for sure!

[sscully]

I am doing seated around the world ( like the video Siege did ) on FRI with shoulders.  See how that goes.
- I am using my dumbbell lateral / alternating shoulder press weight amount as the starting point to see how it goes ( right now it is the last item of the day, might move it up the chart ).

Dumb question time, do you still follow the every other day rule for weights ?
- I am still somewhat stuck in the 80s with the Joe Wieder actions.

I have an every other day action ( actually 4 days, so THUR / FRI are in a row ) on weights with off days being the elliptical ( do battle ropes after weights on those days ).

Just curious if I should be going every day, with the alternating groups

[Kitzy]

I'm not 100% sure I follow you on the doing weights multiple days in a row.  I am going to assume that you mean weight training in general, as just using weights at all two days in a row.  This is my routine, for better or for worse.  It might be a little unorthodox but its certainly not uncommon.  Many people have an arms day (bis and tris) while some prefer to split the two muscle groups and combine bis with back and tris with chest.  I am NOT of that camp and let me explain why.  When doing back, you are indirectly working your bis.  Think any sort of row or pull up (not chin ups [chins-palms face you/pull ups- palms face away from you similar to a lat pull down]).  When you work chest, you hit the tris as well... think bench press.  And coincidently when you train tris you often hit chest like when doing close grip bench press and dips (mainly the type where you lean forward a bit/the more vertical you remain then the more focus is placed on the tris.). My theory is to seperate those as to give each muscle group full focus and not preexhaust my bis by doing back or my tris by doing chest.  As for an Arm day and a back/chest day... for me its too much to do back and chest on the same day.  Too many heavy lifts.  That long explanation out of the way... here it goes:
Monday : Chest and Bis.  Usually alternating muscle groups as i go so that I can give them a chance to recoup before the next set.  For example: flat db bench - standing easy bar curls - incline bench - seated incline rotating db curls - pec Dec - crazy triple set of chin ups/cable rope hammer curls/cable easy bar curls - followed by whatever I feel like depending on energy levels and what not.  But you get the point.
Tuesday : Shoulders followed by forearms (essential for grip strength)
Wednesday : Legs
Thursday : rest day
Friday : Back and tris - same concept as chest and bis - no neex to explain but i can if youre curious of my routine.
SAT/SUN : off days - this is crucial after back and tris as its my heaviest day and i have nothing left.  I need the time to heal up.

Ideally I should switch Tuesday and Wednesday because I'd like more separation between squats and deadlifts but I'm stubborn and dont want to alter what has been working.  The other benefit to switching those days is that all of the shoulder pressing exercises recruit the tris as well so it would be nice to space it out from chest (which means indirectly tris).  Goes for forearm as well.  Forearm exercises recruit the bis.  I think you get the point.

[sscully]

That is what I was trying to get at.

I am :

SUN : Chest
TUE : Arms
THUR : Back
FRI : Shoulders

I do not do a dedicated legs day, I do squats between sets on SUN, but I don't hammer them with a full day.
- I do what the doc told me was OK, but I don't want to test his life time joint replacement design and go too heavy on it.

I was asking if the every other day was still needed, or if I could :

SUN : Chest
MON : Arms
TUE : Back
WED : Shoulders
THUR : Chest
FRI : Arms
( think you get the idea )

This is getting in more sets / Month but I think with carry over between focus groups I might not be giving enough recovery time.
- This is the 80s Joe W concept plenty of recovery time.

That is why I was asking if you hit harder than you do, and it seems the Joe from the 80s is still the suggested route.

Thanks for the clarification on it

[Kitzy]

I would just caution your example, whether you follow that or it is indeed just a sample.  And here's why.

Sunday - chest - tris as a by product.
Monday - arms (bis/tris) - chest as a by product to tris depending on exercises.  You've now just worked that muscle two days in a row.
Tuesday - Back - bis as a by product.  Bis two days in a row.
Wednesday - Shoulders - no real problem here. 
Thursday - chest - bench pressing hammers the anterior delts (front shoulder muscle.)

The point behind my routine is to give each muscle sort of their own primary day to hit it as hard as possible with as much focus as possible and allow a break for that muscle before I hit it again as even a secondary muscle (by product so to speak.)

You do need to give your body a rest.  How much is going to depend on your intensity.  I like at least two days a week.  Not only is it a physical break but also a mental break.  Its kind of like a cheat meal on a strict diet.  Sometimes you just need to relax and indulge.

As for legs.  Squats are the primary exercise.  Even going semi light is better than nothing.  Just go for reps instead.  There are different versions as well and you can even try substituting them with leg press instead though not as good as squats.  Maybe do some hamstring curls.  If your knees are bad, leg extensions are a great way to build quad muscles around the knee to support the patella (?knee cap.). I have this problem and only caution to go light and be careful.  I went too heavy and almost hurt my knee.  It buckled at the top of the movement.  Lunges are great if you can do them.  Step ups to a platform as high as you can manage, they've been killing me lately especially if I have a bar across my shoulders.  Calves!  Hit em and hit em hard.  They can take a lot.  Seated or standing.  Preferably both as they hit the muscles different.  Just things to consider if you're able to.  If age or injury is a concern then by all means be careful and only do what youre capable of.

[sscully]

That is what I thought, the recoup ( even for secondary ) is still the best idea.

I was just asking, as I still have some 1980s habits laying around, that is why I have the SUN, TUE, THUR, FRI routine.  Some things like GVT might change, but the basics are still there.
- Guess the same as detailing, KB made a "new" method of defect removal, but at the core is it really any different than a multi pass ?

Legs : I had a total hip replacement on my left.  I don't want to see if I can grind up the cross linked polymer cup the Ti ball sits in.  That is why I do not go crazy with them.
- Maybe I should start being more religious about leg lifts, after 1 hr on the elliptical with the circuit training, I feel it in my knees the next day walking up stairs with my briefcase ( leather and I carry a ton of stuff - side effect of having your office on your shoulder ).

[Kitzy]

Replaced body parts are completely out of my league.  I'm not touching that.  That's going to strictly be left to doctors.

[sscully]

Well, proof that days off are required.

I did arms today, and the first set out was curls.

Good lord did my chest hurt after the flat around the worlds on SUN.
- Guess I hit the chest pretty hard if I am still feeling it today...

[Kitzy]

I did around the worlds today.  Upright seated version.  It was shoulder day.  I also stepped away from the smith machine dor my shoulder presses.  I started using it when I injured my shoulder.  I switched back to DB shoulder presses today and quickly realized that the accompanying stabilizer muscles have weakened.  So no more Smith machine for me.  May ditch it for close grip bench as well.

[sscully]

I don't have one ( I have a half rack and bars / plates ) but I thought the smith machine just guide the bar with plates on it.
- Is is more like a bench press machine ?

Or is this a case that the guide for the bar is actually what you are talking about with the stabilizer mussels ( the lack of movement from the smith machine does away with the need for them  ?

[Kitzy]

That's exactly what the smith machine does but in addition to being on a track it is also on a cable and pulley for reasons I'm not really sure of.  There's no resistance.  At least not until the track get gunked up and hasn't been greased in a while.  But it keeps that same plain of motion no matter what therefore completely removing the need for all of the smaller muscles that help support and steady the weight.  I went from over head pressing almost 250# to being very unstable with 50# dumbbells and struggling with 75# dbs.

[sscully]

wow that is a shock.  I would not expect that much delta.
- Thought you were 80# dumbbells ( + ? ) with dumbbell presses before the injury.

The biggest shock is you are down in my weight range for dumbbell presses.
- Think I start the 5x5s at 45# each, I'd have to look at the chart in the basement to know for sure and mine are incline ( ~ 70* bench ) not free seated like a military press; which could explain a chunk of it.

At least a non greased track can act like chain bench presses 

[Kitzy]

Well the way the DB shoulder presses went was like this...

# per each hand
50# warm up.  Extremely shakey.  Struggled. 
75# Manage 4 before realizing I needed to work back up.
60# shakey but warming up.  Got a little steadier.  10 reps maybe?
70# got even more steady.  Surprising managed 12 reps.
80# struggled to get up into starting position but complete 10.
90# failed to get in to starting position twice.  Called it quits and moved on to something else.

The problem is definitely with the stabilizer muscles.  That's where the shakey, uncontrollable feeling comes in.  I'm hoping it was a good sign that I was able to work up to it a better weight.  Overall I was still very disappointed.  Those 90#s are going to haunt me though because I think if I had a spotter to help me get in to position that I could have completed 8 reps.  I believe my max was 85# and that was a long time ago.  My shoulders have gotten much stronger  but the stabalizers have not kept up.  There are usually a handful of guys that I've developed a decent gym-buddy-friendship with at any given time that I can ask for a spotter but it was dead yesterday. 

Off topic.  An order I placed for protein and protein bars came in yesterday.  Quest bars are awesome.  I've tried Apple Pie, Mixed Berry Bliss, White Chocolate Raspberry, and Banana Nut Muffin. I decided to try some new ones so I went with a known good one with a box of apple Pie again and Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough and Cookies and Cream.   Being on a diet, the occasional sweet tooth is killer.  The CCCD... amazing.  Almost exactly like the real deal.  I'm in love!  So much I haven't even tried the C&C yet.

Today is exactly 12 weeks since the start of my diet.  I didn't get a chance to weigh myself this morning so tomorrow morning I will and see where I'm at.  I'm hoping for 246!

[Kitzy]

12 weeks in to my diet and I'm down to 245lbs for a total of 27lbs lost!